How to Be About it: The Leadership of Joshua Gunn

“In 2020 we are still facing the same injustice that my father fought against in the fifties. And that is just exhausting.”

Joshua Gunn is an Artist, Community Builder and President & CEO of the Peoria Area Chamber of Commerce. He’s also a Leadership Triangle Goodmon Fellow, graduate of our 2017 Executive Program.

Kristine: So my first question for you is really getting at this, “how are you doing” question that we tend to ask one another, but I’m asking the question within the context that we are in the middle of a global pandemic, we’re in a sustained movement around race and systemic racism in this country — experiencing a punctuated piece of that movement since June. So, for real, how are you doing?

Joshua: I’m well, health wise and I’m grateful for that. I wake up every morning and the first prayer that I say is I thank God for my health and I thank God for the health of my family, because this pandemic has come very close to home for me. Several people that I know have tested positive for COVID, some of my close friends have lost family members due to COVID and it’s very real, for everyone, but, you know, in my own individual day to day, it’s very real for me. And so I’m grateful that I’m healthy.

You know, one of the things that I talked to a friend about yesterday was that I’m busy, right? I’m super busy with work and creating and holding all the different hats that I wear. Sometimes it’s easy to pretend, or maybe even trick yourself into thinking that this, all this stuff happening in the world, is not impacting you. But it is, and there’s this constant anxiety, and I’ve been, you know, becoming more conscious of the whole thing.

It almost feels like it’s one of those sci-fi movies right now in the world. It’s just one thing after another in 2020, and COVID is only one of them. So in terms of that, I am grateful that I’m healthy and also sort of wrestling with this constant concern. Even you know, our interactions with other people. I’m very much a people person. I love people and I want to be around people. I love hugs and conversations and laughter. And those are mainly gone now. And even when you’re in the presence of others, it’s just so weird. You know what I’m saying? Like, you don’t know how to share space with each other. Everyone’s so concerned. And that makes it tough. That makes it hard for someone like me who really gets my energy from engaging with other people.

In terms of the Movement for Black Lives, as a Black man raising Black children, it is taking a huge emotional toll on me to constantly turn on the news or go on social media and continue to see Black bodies being murdered and Black people being accosted and slaughtered in the streets by, quite frankly, people who were — who are, paid to protect and serve us.

It takes a huge emotional toll on me daily. I’m to the point where I’ve had to, you know, completely disengage. I don’t watch the videos anymore. I can’t take the videos. I read the headlines, I read the stories, but I just can’t watch another Black person be murdered. So it’s tough, you know, it’s this constant. For about 20 years, through my art, I’ve been speaking on these issues and advocating for equity and talking about social justice and racial justice and systemic racism and dismantling systems of oppression and doing community organizing work. I started a festival called Black Artists in the Park with my friends, centered in the history of social justice. It’s work that I’ve been doing for so long. Yet in 2020 we are still facing the same injustice that my father fought against in the fifties. And that is just exhausting.

And now a lot of people want to talk to me about it and part of me is like, where have you been? Why do I have to explain systemic racism to people in 2020? You know what I mean? I don’t know what that emotion is. Whatever it is, I’m feeling that. And I’ve had to check myself on that too. It’s impacted my involvement in the movement because I’m just so fed up and so frustrated. I’ve become a bit closed off, particularly to, you know, speaking plainly, to white folks that would approach me asking “what can I do?” And I’m just like, dude, you’ve known me for 20 years, where have you been? I’ve been screaming this at the top of my lungs. So have 14 million other African Americans and now today you want to talk about it.

So you know, I don’t know what that emotion is, but I’ve been having to check myself on that and question whether it serves the progress of our community. Everyone comes around in their own time. I’m trying really hard to do that.

Really long answer, but that’s, that’s how I’m doing.

Kristine: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I really appreciate your answer. I hear the exhaustion and I hear something that I want to frame as a “what the …. y’all ” kind of a feeling.

Joshua: Yes.

Kristine: What, if anything, is giving you hope right now?

Joshua: My children. My children are a constant reminder for me to keep pressing forward, to keep fighting for a better world. Cause also in those, in that range of emotions that I just described, there’s this thing like, okay, will this ever change? Will this ever get better? And I don’t know. I don’t know if it will, but I know I’m gonna fight like hell to make sure that it does for them, you know? So they give me hope because I have to be hopeful and optimistic for them. My children are also this constant ray of sunshine. You know, my daughter is three and a half and my son is a year old, so they have no idea what’s going on. They don’t know about the pandemic. They don’t watch the news. All they know is what we expose them to. And I try every day to just keep them happy and surround them with positivity and joy. And in doing that, it keeps me smiling too.

Kristine: Those are fun ages. I feel like at that age, there’s also this clarity that children have. You know you ask them, do you want to do this? And they’re like, yes. Or no. It’s so clear. And I find that when everything is kind of ambiguous in the world, that clarity of what children want and need is comforting.

Kristine: So I’m going to lean more into the Leadership Triangle lens here and ask you — when you think about building and supporting community, especially a regionally specific community, what comes to mind for you? What are the foundations?

Joshua: When I think of community, I think of a couple of things. One is shared priorities, right? People are different. People come from all kinds of backgrounds and those backgrounds form their perspectives, and those perspectives inform their priorities. I am of the belief that, you know, we can spend all day arguing about our differences, but what’s more productive is finding areas where we share priorities.

When a community of people are dedicated to shared priorities, I would hope that that manifests itself as helping each other achieve them. And focusing on the we, instead of the me, is critical. For me, those priorities are things like safety, progress and even prosperity.

That’s what community means to me. I can’t stress enough the safety element of it, particularly for Black folks. Having people that will protect you. Community is a protection mechanism. To be around each other and be looking out for each other in a world that is, quite frankly, a bit dangerous for Black lives.

I think the way that extends outside of the Black community and into the Triangle and across the country is people recognizing our shared humanity. Our shared desire to be safe, comfortable, and successful. I do believe that communities can help make each other more successful and thrive in whatever way we want to, if we lean into our interconnectedness.

Kristine: I love that lens. It also brings to mind the differences in how people perceive the cultivation of safety and community, right? Like what structures we believe keep us safe and who we believe keeps us safe.

Joshua: Yeah. Yeah, no doubt.

“I began to get some recognition for the art, which I guess accidentally made me somewhat of a leader because people looked at me for my voice or my presence. And it wasn’t something that I was really conscious of until I got much older.”

Kristine: Okay so going into this idea of showing up in community and also being a leader in a community, what do you feel like you’ve learned about your own individual leadership and your community leadership over time?

Joshua: So for most of my life, since I was seven or eight years old, I’ve been an artist and my life’s work has been creating things. And through that, I began to get some recognition for the art, which I guess accidentally made me somewhat of a leader because people looked at me for my voice or my presence. And it wasn’t something that I was really conscious of until I got much older. So I never really thought about my leadership style and what it meant to be a leader. I just was creating music and trying to speak out on issues that I cared about.

But then through my work as a chamber executive and as a Durham city council candidate, I started taking my role as a leader more seriously. I’ve learned that I am a visionary, I am a big picture type of guy. I’m not very strong in the weeds. I’m not like the deepdive data analysis person. But when I lead from the goal and strategy level, I think I can bring a lot. I also need partners who are more tactical and who can dig down into the blocking and tackling of what it takes to accomplish a big picture vision.

Kristine: What are you working on right now?

Joshua: I think the elephant in the room for me is, you know, I moved, I left the Triangle. I moved to Illinois and took a new position as the CEO of a Chamber of Commerce in a community that has got some real need and some real challenges from an economic standpoint, from a racial relations standpoint, and in dealing with real income disparity and poverty. Running a business focused organization in that climate is a new challenge for me. I’m working on helping business become more of a partner to issues of equity and more of an engine through which we can achieve more equitable communities. Ultimately, I’m excited to take the things I learn to other communities as well.

I’m working on a ton of other creative projects as well. I am starring in my first movie called A Polished Soul, which will be on your streaming services really soon. I’m excited about that and excited about the music I’m creating.

I guess I’m excited to just continue to push things forward in the midst of all the chaos that we’re experiencing in the world. I’ll go back to one of your first questions about what gives me hope. The things that I’m working on also give me hope, because to create and build I have to be optimistic. I have to believe that what I’m doing is going to create positive outcomes.